This post will make no sense if you’re unfamiliar with the Manga Alliance/Anime League/Dimensional Entertainment Drama, so you may want to skip it. It’s too long a story to catch you up (although I’ve sprinkled some links throughout the thing to remind us all of the history), but my involvement started here: Manga Alliance: Buyer Beware
Well, knock me down with a feather, will you look at that:
I’m going to be a bit more cynical below, but first I want to acknowledge what happened here: Mike Towers apologised. And it’s a real apology, no “I’m sorry but this is really your fault“, no “Why must you be so sensitive”, no “I’m sorry but I didn’t do anything wrong”, no, an actual apology.
“I messed up, I understand what I did wrong, I apologise.”
Holy shit. I honestly did not think he was capable of that. In fact, this is so out of keeping with what I thought Mike was like that I’m willing to entertain the possibility that maybe I had him wrong. So, therefore, thank you for your apology Mike, please consider your unofficial ban lifted. And no, I’m not being sarcastic. I’m honestly surprised and impressed.
I hope others will join me in taking this as the death-knell for Manga Alliance. (Though maybe someone can write to Thoughtbubble, BICS and the J-Culture Con to fill them in?) I would like to point out that Mike Towers and his friends have as much right to run anime events and set up clubs as anyone else does. We have a right to decline taking part, and even criticise what they are doing, but not to the point of bullying and harassment. There’s no honour in being a sore winner.
There is also a longer statement from Jason Joiner of Showmasters, explaining how they came to be part of Manga Alliance, and why they no longer are.
A statement from Jason about the Manga Alliance
Tl;dr: Dil mislead us, it became too commercial, don’t hate on Mike, don’t blame Showmasters, we’re no longer part of this now let’s have a hug.
I have some thoughts about this, first, I do think that Mike Towers got far too much credit/blame for the Manga Alliance thing from certain quarters, and I immediately believe that Dil of Dimensional Entertainment was one of the driving forces too, and possibly the initiator.
There are parts of Jason’s statement that bother me though.
At no time was I asked to agree to anything, or sign up to agree to rules or anything like that. I would not have done so even if i was asked as I do not think this is needed, and as everyone’s ideas of how something should be done is different, it would not work.
Wait, what? When you work together with people, especially if it’s a deal between businesses, or one business and a private person, or even if it’s just friends but there’s going to be money involved, you need a contract or agreement of some kind. The Manga Alliance, if it was going to be at all successful, would be important to the bottom line of several companies, which all had slightly different interests. Yet, Jason didn’t think it was necessary to make some solid arrangements about how this whole thing was going to work? Maybe you should have put a little thought into the legal dimension of what you were doing?
as everyone’s ideas of how something should be done is different, it would not work.
And this means you don’t need rules?! What?! You’d join up for something like this without any kind of agreement saying what’s expected of you and them, without any rules about decision making, without even a vision or mission statement or something?
I find that odd.
Remember, one of the important problems with the Manga Alliance was that its purpose wasn’t very clear. Or rather, its purpose was abundantly clear: it was a promotion vehicle for Dimensional Entertainment (and Anime League). How did Jason miss that?
But over a short time I do feel that at least one of the people involved has lost his way and it’s not been for the good of the UK anime scene. Their drive was more for commercial reasions than for the fans , which is fine if you are running a company but as an organisation to unite fans and people that love anime and manga I do not think you can mix the two. Either it’s a group to help everyone into anime or it’s a commercial business. Not both.
Hm, that kinda sounds like what I was saying. Wonder if Jason Joiner will be “getting hell” from the Angry League? (Ohai you guys, btw, apologies impress me, see above. Do feel free. >_<)
Did “at least one of the people involved” (his name is Dil, Jason. Remember?) really lose his way over a short period of time, or was Jason just not paying attention? Why did it take pointing out by the internets for him to realise what was going on?
As to the people I have met though the Manga Alliance, there are some really nice people that I am going to still work with. I also feel some good people have been caught up in something thay did not realise was going the wrong way and turning too commercial. [...]
We look forward to maybe seeing some of you at future events where you can start to see us for what we are – good people trying to grow a fun event for all the fans that attend it . [emphasis mine]
What do you mean, turning commercial? Did you not realise the panda was more than a mascot for the Manga Alliance? Did you look into the people you were entering a partnership with, by, like, checking out their site?
You know, I’m perfectly willing to believe they had the best intentions. But good intentions aren’t really that important when it comes to answering questions like: is this event worth my money? Will I have a good time? Can I trust these guys not to screw everything up?
If I have to choose between two events:
- one run by real anime fans who have lots of love for the community but no real experience or know-how when it comes to running events,
- and one event run by a businessperson who is only out to make money but knows how to set up and run events, and knows enough about the crowd to give them what they need,
I’ll pick event number 2, please, kthx. I’m not that impressed by anyone’s “true fan” status. I’d much rather have true capability.
So do better next time, OK? OK.
{ 117 comments }
← Previous Comments
“I must also say I am slightly disturbed reading about the exclusivity deals MCM has got going on, particularly where it concerns the do’s and don’ts of Sweatdrop.”
For the record:
Sweatdrop is not contracted in any way to the London MCM Expo, nether as a group nor as individuals. We are only one group and our resources can only stretch so far. We met the expo organisers at a Minami con 4/5 years ago. Showmasters did actually call a few months later, but by then we’d decided to do the MCM and couldn’t stretch ourselves, sadly.
That’s it. No conspiracy, no complex contract.
We have grown to love the MCM and continue to pour our efforts in because of trust, friendship and a love for the event and its attendees…not because of a contract.
I’ll return to silence now. Just wanted to make sure no one had the wrong end of any stick there. ^_^
OK, good morning every one. Some points.
From the information I have access to behind the scenes, I can conclude that UKAnimeGuy and Bryan are not posting from the same place, and are very unlikely to be the same person. I think Bryan is showing sense by not getting involved in the discussion, even if it’d be nice to hear his side of things. I do not see any rational reason to assume UKAnimeGuy and Bryan are in close contact, or that one of them is action under orders of the other. O.o RLY!
Jason, you’re getting all the flak here because you’re the one talking about Expo. I don’t think it’s right to say that the negative attention Manga Alliance was getting was somehow about you! I was critical of the Manga Alliance because of the hubris involved, and the thinly veiled self-promotion. Some were also worried about the monopolising potential (I wasn’t too worried about that, because I thought it had a snowball’s chance to succeed.)
This turf-war between MCM and Showmasters is a separate matter, as far as I’m concerned. It has nothing to do with me and I don’t see any reason to get involved. I’m sorry UKAnimeGuy, but I am not the Kenobi you’re looking for. People are allowed to work together to further the goals of their organisations. Are they good people? I don’t know, why do I care? So long as they don’t con people into carrying their branding under false pretences, I have no problem with it.
And I think you may overestimate my involvement: I am not one of the people who talked to Jason about the Alliance; since my post about them back in April, I have sat back and watched, nothing more. Your issues seem to be with Jason, and perhaps you should take that up with him. Waving vague accusations around about an event that happened at some time near London is not going to get you the reaction you’re after, I think.
Finally, @Yakumo: a combination of competence AND love would make for the best events, of course.
Hi Willie
My apologies, you are correct I must have just gone off the rails!
I will keep things focused from this point forward.
It is very interesting to see that someone from the sweatdrop people has come on here to throw back in the face of the stament made that they are forced to work with mcm when they are not!
I would imagine that others who are lurking will soon do the same thing and reinforce what has been said that they are still working in the same way but not under the MA banner!
As for bryan to be honest i feel he is doing the right thing by staying out of all this, as if he or paul feels they have nothing to answer then why would they?
‘Showmasters did actually call a few months later, but by then we’d decided to do the MCM and couldn’t stretch ourselves, sadly.
That’s it. No conspiracy, no complex contract.’
That sounds like a more than fair and reasonable explanation to me.
hi Emma Vieceli
i am glad yo remembered us calling Sweatdrop , but we were told at the time that you only planed to work with one of the big events , and latter i was told by two different people that a deal was set between you and MCM were you could not work with us ? so if i have gotten the wrong end of the stick then i am sorry
so its not true you cannot work with us, then that’s great as we would love to work with you, and have wanted to for years , as to your point about your group not being able to stretch yourselves then i would be happy to help with this , as we are happy to pay for travel and hotels and other costs and we also have a budget for lots of other things and can find wages if needed so let us help make this happen , you see our event is not just a Manga event, the film and TV side brings in a lot of income and we are more than happy to spend this on other aspects of the event to make the hole event bigger and to cater for a wider range of fandom , so if it cool i would love to meet up and maybe talk about how we can work together more , its great you are aloud to work with us , i look forward to talking to you on this if you want to contact me on and thanks for clearing this up i know we can make it work for you .
thanks so much jason
Ahahaha! XD Bwahahahahaaaa…aaaa. Fantastic missing of the point.
Exactly ‘ohai’ my thoughts as well or did I miss the point?
Am I reading the reply from emma vicelli wrong?
””’We are only one group and our resources can only stretch so far.””
*Does this not say we can not do it as we can not allot enough time to another event in the same right.
””We met the expo organisers at a Minami con 4/5 years ago. Showmasters did actually call a few months later, but by then we’d decided to do the MCM and couldn’t stretch ourselves, sadly.
That’s it. No conspiracy, no complex contract.””
*Again this reinforces from the past and also now from the present they are unable to stretch their resources.
””We have grown to love the MCM and continue to pour our efforts in because of trust, friendship and a love for the event and its attendees…not because of a contract.””
*I think this says pretty much all does it not?
Then what does he come back and do offer to buy their time, may be wonderful but again they have been straight.
IS trying to buy someone not quite underhand when they have already made their posistion clear.
Perhaps I am wrong but is how it looks to me
The very definition of underhand is to “do something in a sly and secret way”. Given that Jason is being very upfront and stating all of this publicly, I’d say his behaviour is the very opposite of underhand.
It’s not my belief that Sweatdrop have any form of deal with MCM – if Emma says this, I am inclined to believe her, and Sweatdrop are mostly very trustworthy people.
I wonder if an arrangement could be worked out for some of the biggest Showmaster events such as LFCC whereby Sweatdrop attend as dealers/panelists and AL runs the Artist Alley (in my mind that’d be an ideal solution). That way their workload is kept relatively low, they get exposure and Showmasters benefit from their extra experience and presence. However, this may not be the best place to discuss that – perhaps Sweatdrop and Showmasters could discuss this over email?
Now, DDRUK might be another story altogether.. Would anyone here be able to clarify the exact nature of the relationship between DDRUK and MCM?
hi Willie
as i said before sorry this has happened in here it was going to go some ware sorry its on your turf , i hope you are ok with this and once again thanks for being fair on both sides its much appreciated
now to reply to your points
“I have access to behind the scenes, I can conclude that UKAnimeGuy and Bryan are not posting from the same place,”
sorry we all know people know how to hide on the net so this is not proof as we all know , also it may not be bryan it could just be Paul as what he is saying its as if he is speaking for or on behalf of bryan just look at his posts and the last one ,
“As for bryan to be honest i feel he is doing the right thing by staying out of all this, as if he or paul feels they have nothing to answer then why would they?”
reply
he says hes a dealer and knows me and Paul, sorry his story is unbelievable and if he is not them why not just tell us his name, sorry this is a troll, and some of the people that have been reading what has been going on here have all told me they feel the same way by email its it a troll, but this dose not matter to me i think attacking me is showing everyone what he is , so my job is done really with him , so i move on .
sorry this person talked like he had never herd of Bryan and now hes putting out a party politcal brordcast telling everyone what Bryan & Paul are saying says,
” even if it’d be nice to hear his side of things.”
reply
yes it would and is would clear up a lot of things and if he would reply to me asking him for permission to allow us to be able to place adds in Neo , we would love a response to this as we could all move forward from hear and do our own things .
“Jason, you’re getting all the flak here because you’re the one talking about Expo. ”
reply
ok but because i have issues that i wanted to talk about its still odd that then UKAnimeGuy turns his attack viciously on me and attacks me in a personal and very low way , and as we do not know who he is , there is no come back to him , he can just say what he wants and dose , i can and only say what i know to be true , he dose not have to be accountable or tell the truth as he is anonymous and can get away with saying what ever he likes , i do not see many others with such venom or hostility as others just seem to ask questions and want to understand more , which i am happy to help answer .
” I don’t think it’s right to say that the negative attention Manga Alliance was getting was somehow about you! I was critical of the Manga Alliance because of the hubris involved, and the thinly veiled self-promotion. ”
reply
i also saw this at the end but did not even thing of this at the start you were right ,
‘Some were also worried about the monopolising potential (I wasn’t too worried about that, because I thought it had a snowball’s chance to succeed.)”
reply
you were right on MA , so whats your thoughts on MCM as i have an email saying i cannot place adds in Neo and when asked its because we are in London be it in the summer and that our event has some aspects which are the same as MCM , so because of this we are not aloud to run adds in there mag , this is a monopoly just what you thought MA was trying to do and its happened
“This turf-war between MCM and Showmasters is a separate matter, as far as I’m concerned.”
reply
its not a “turf-war” we do not want to be the event they are, we just want to look after the people that are into Manga at our events , i am not interested in trying to compete with them and they know this , they just want to control the market out right i have seen this before from them and i can prove this to , all we want is to be aloud to do our own thing .
“a combination of competence AND love would make for the best events, of course.
”
reply
we have a lot to learn but we are always willing to learn
thank you for listing and your time on this
jason
He offered to pay them to attend his event. How can you try and twist that into something bizarre/underhanded/ suspicious. He is offering to pay a professional for their time if they have it. Its called getting paid. Will they accept, clearly not, because their schedule is clearly plenty full already. Honestly though man, seriously, your level of spin is getting ridiculous. In her post emma says that ‘we are only one group and our resources can only stretch so far.’ Resources can be a lot of things. In this case its probably ‘time’. However jason without the aid of ESP could take resources to mean a lot of things. Cost of attendance for example? Its blatantly clear that all he was doing was offering to overcome what he thought the problem was.
Jason you should also consider that there are a number of smaller uk manga groups operating such as itch themselves, indie manga, speedlines etc with equally competent artists. If you cant book sweatdrop you should give them serious consideration.
The comments are actually funny now, because of the hilarious amount the critics are reading into them. Its like a tarot.
If this guy farted you would call it a poison gas attack. If he picked up a kitten to pet it you would call the RSPCA. This guy could not sneeze without you seeing the ‘true motive’ behind it.
Its just a joke at this point.
Also jason, seriously dude if willie says that its not him i would take her word for it. You are sliding down conspiracy street with it. The further you go with it the potentially larger blowback when they reveal themselves to be person x y or z.
Destraudo
I PROMISE NOT TO PICK UP A KITTEN AGAIN OK SORRY
ok you make a good point i am happy to work with anyone that is willing to work with us that,s cool and thinks it wood be fun to add some new aspects to the events we run
as i did say before we do have a budget for new things for the shows and do work with lots of people and talk over what we would like to see then leave them to do it how they feel it should be done
so thanks for pointing this out , i did not understand “itch” could do this as i thought they just did art work on commision , but yes i would love to see what could be done and maybe put some people together and do several things , and the same gos for indie manga, speedlines and i will contact them all , thanks for this its all very help full , we just want to work with people that will help us and not let us down and have some fun at the same time
jaosn
Ok, fair enough feedback.
People will see for themselves eventually what i am saying.
I am not trying to twist things just clarify them from experience but there you go until it bites you offer the benefit of the doubt I understand but from me and and a number of people that have offered the benefit of the doubt in the past it is just a heads up.
But fair enough learn the hard way as we did all did.
The backhanded way people involved with Expo are dragged into this via this so called apology is actually a little sickening. Blaming someone else for your troubles just because they couldn’t run your AA is a bit weird, and I think forcing people to enter correspondence in this way is a bit underhanded (because if the people you’re talking about in public don’t answer, then THEY look bad, not you). So now you have an answer from Emma, you’re going to hunt down DDRUK as well and interrogate them about Expo? You guys say you want to run your own event and not copy Expo, then do it. But how is getting all the same people to run it be any different? Jesus christ guys, think outside the box a little!
ohai,
- This isn’t a topic for anyone to apologise in, it’s one to discuss all of this. You can find my apology topic here – http://www.animeleague.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=92015
- The fact that MCM played a major role in people feeling like they needed to form a Manga Alliance surely makes them and their dealings an integral part of this discussion.
- No one has been “hunted down” – is there a need to use such excessive hyperbole? Emma entered this topic of her own free will and I am sure is more than happy to be able to clarify what quite a few people have (quite unfairly in my view) been saying in private for some time. I have brought DDRUK into this discussion since I believe that what a lot have been saying privately about them and MCM should also be brought out into the open and clarified.
FreeSaiyan
Why do you feel the need to question anyone at all?
If people have made a choice why do they need to be dragged through the mud just to satisfy you or the people you work with or for?
sweatdrop have already come back and said what you have heard is basically rubbish, what makes you think that the ddr people will not just do the same?
As the person says above have an original idea of your own and stop copying others which is what you and the unamed one are trying to do by trying to get the sweatdrop group and now by the looks of it the ddr people, who will be next?
When will enough be enough for you and you group?
Leave people alone, do your own things and stop trying to copy something that already exists.
I think and hope my comments are not out of place this time as they are factual and not biased against anyone are they?
Thanks for clearing up that little matter Emma! ^_^ *is relieved* XD It sounded so wrong.
As there are lots of events in a year, it is perfectly normal for artists to choose between some of them. Sometimes only so as not to die of exhaustion, but there can be many practical matters of influence.
Well, it seems we’re off the subject of the Manga Alliance. I think there’s less to this “MCM is controlling everybody” conspiracy than is written. Stop focusing on what you can’t do, focus on what you can do instead.
Yes, competence, love, and a bit of social skills are a winning combination
hay UKAnimeGuy if you let people know who you are i will at least listen to what you are saying how about it
so come on you know who we are, now its your turn
there is a sweety in it for you and thats the truth
j
i am sorry if people think we are being backhanded but we are not at all, and i am being so up front its painful
we have been told we cannot take adds in NEO at all because we run an event that has aspects like MCM and they have an agreement with them to not allow any event like there event to be promote in Neo “FACT” i have the correspondence to prove this
the Fact we are not like MCM seems to not be of any help to us
we have also been told , we will not be able to work with other key players also, this has been though 3ed party’s and has been verbal so we do not have prof in writing so we can only go by what we are told.
now asking people on here people, companies and MCM is a very good way to find out were we stand and get the real truth , we know Neo cannot help us as that’s in MCM hands but the rest we are finding out more by talking on here so this is good .
all we want is to be aloud to do our events and be aloud to work with whoever wants to work with us
if the monopolies are taken down that are there to stop us then we will not have any issues to go on about, there will be nothing more to say from us and we will just get on with our events and work with who ever want to , and do our own thing. and that’s a promise .
i am being fair and i cannot be more clear than this
maybe if we had more dialog between MCM and us we could all move forward and resolve this , but this rarely happens, as Bryan never wants to talk face to face or at all , so maybe on here it may happen we shall see , the balls in his court , so lets see
all or what i have just said is true .
no one is trying to twist stuff or trash anyone here what we say we can prove , its all true and as such is a fact.
i know someone will still say we are trying to create drama but we are not
Jason
So hang on a minute you get stuffed by neo magazine , surely if they have taken the view that they feel they do not want to work with you that is up to them isn’t it?
It is their business to run as they see fit.
They have made the choice themselves not had their arms put up their backs.
The sweatdrop people have openly come on here and rubbished the rumours as you put them that you have heard they were not allowed to go elsewhere when that is completly wrong and they make an active choice not to spread themselves thin.
Now you want to to start on the ddr people, if the last answer is anything to go by I would imagine if they do come on here it will be the same, their choice and no contract.
Where are you going with this as you say the main players as you put it you have heard through 3rd parties that they are not allowed to work with anyone else, have they? Are theses 3rd parties correct as they do not seem to be so far!
Take a step back and read what you are saying.
The rumours so far are wrong, the conspiracy that you are playing up really does not exist and you are not liking it as you think you should be able to run on the shirt tails of someone else.
Sorry this is the real world and we do not get what we want all of the time.
UKAnimeGuy,
It’s entirely Neo’s decision who they work with. Indeed, it’d be their call to run their magazine in any way they see fit. They could, for example, give better reviews to companies that pay them money for example.
The fact that they have freedom of action is entirely separate to acting in a moral and responsible manner. I love how you are all for seemingly unlimited and immoral freedom of action, while at the same time have spent half of this discussion continually crying out “They’re ALL STILL WORKING TOGETHER!!”. Your logic is really lacking in consistency.
Now, Neo, as the anime community’s only main-stream publication, surely should cover all anime-related events. Could someone please find an issue of Neo that has covered ANY event that has not been MCM Expo related – either as an advert, a new item, or as an article? This is more than just Showmasters not getting ads in Neo, this is about the fans having a right to know that there’s more out there than just Expo.
Way to go Mr Mike Towers I would imagine that you must have done yourself the power of good having a go at Neo ‘the anime community’s only main-stream publication’ as you put it.
I would imagine they will be falling over themselves to cover ALcon, Anime League and showmasters events now!
Arer you god now that can tell them as a business how to react and their morals should be?
But there you go judging by all of the people moaning on the internet that you delete their posts all of the time from your message board when it is something you don’t like, congratulations on taking the moral high ground yourself!
By the way I I just could not contain myself, I just had to forward your post on to neo to see what you are doing.
Also that you have taken it upon yourself to mud sling, let me think who would win in that up coming encouter ?
Good Luck in your future endeavours
Mr Mike Towers
UKAnimeGuy,
- We have a very transparent policy regarding removal of posts, trolling and general rule-breaking. You can read it at http://www.animeleague.net/forums/ucp.php?mode=terms if you wish. You also seem to think that I personally go around modding the entire forums, swooping in like some ban-happy nazi-mod of doom. The truth is that we have over sixty members of staff on Animeleague which moderate different sections (I am not even in charge of banning, this is delegated to a group of staff who handle this – I am often too soft and don’t ban people when they need to be). They all adhere to a consistent policy. If anything was done unfairly then perhaps you should have emailed me and I would have looked into and investigated it for you.
- No, I don’t dictate their morals, but I am allowed to judge them, as is everyone else here. Might I ask if you believe it is particularly good for the community for events such as Ayacon, Amecon, Alcon, Fuyucon, Minamicon and so forth not to be talked about in the UK’s main mainstream anime publication?
- Maybe some things need to be “had a go at” to hold them to account and make them realise when they are acting in a way that is damaging. I very much doubt that I would have realised until a lot later on that Manga Alliance was such a bad thing if people had not “had a go” at me over it.
You know, I really would find it amusing if UKAnimeGuy was Paul Milley. I know he’s going to deny it, but just calling it. The way he talks and the way Paul spoke on the phone are very familiar, with very similar phrases being used.
Also, I have no interest in going to war with a magazine I enjoy reading, thanks (but nice try in trying to set one up).
However, that does not mean I won’t remain highly critical of how they approach events and the dealings they have with MCM.
UKAnimeGuy
i know you will never come out of behind the screen
everyone else that has a real point is up front and tells us all who they are if they want to be taken seriously , you do not , you hide and this shows you have so much to hide .
i am not going to bother staying on here till you to find an identity to pretend to be, as that’s going to be your next move it’s pathetic , don’t wast your time you cannot say your real name now and never were going to as soon as you attacked me about being dyslexic ,i do not care about that myself, as i have dealt with it all my life its water of a duck’s back to me but all the emails i have been sent shows me you were finished when you stepped over that line , i knew then you wood never reveal your self after that ., so there we are .
let me just say, you fight and argue as its you being backed into this corner and you have to fight every time and it shows you up and give you away , do you know why people think you are ether Bryan or Paul, its because it shows you have so much to lose and it comes over as that , you are fighting for your life for every point and twisting it so much so you now come over as a bit irrational from time to time all very sad .
i do not care which person you are its not of importance now , do what you want, say what you want, its quit clear you are here to do a job, and that’s discredit me nothing more .
well if this is your best twisting everything we say, then maybe i expected to much from you. as hiding behind the screen and playing games is quite sad really , i though you were better than this child’s stuff , if that’s all you can do then its time for me to get on with what i have to do next .
the one thing you cannot get away from is the truth and now lots of people have read the points i have made and seen what i am having to deal with things like you on here ,but we will not give up we have found new people to work with and its looking good for the future.
you can twist it all you can, and try to make us all look bad as much as you want, but its not going to stop us , it will be harder but we will get there in the end , we are not the only ones being stopped here there are more people having to deal with issues like this , we have found each other by being on this site, real fans good people so in a way this has been all very helpful.
in the end you will all make your own minds up on what going on and whats the truth and i know i have nothing to hide and have done nothing wrong .
anyone wanting to email me please do at i will be happy to chat
thank you ALL for reading all this, and a big thank you to Willie for putting up with us all on her site , i do not know you, but really hope we can meet up and i can at least buy you a drink some time
thank you all for reading and now i am off to listen to some Queen , sorry i am guilty of a bad taste in music
jason
sorry i missed a bit
“info@showmastersonline.com”
Queen isn’t bad music at all, Jason! Bohemian Rhapsody is an all-time classic in my book! Amazing song! ^_^
*stares at you all in horror*
Jason, as your host and from one businessperson to another, I would like to offer you advice (please forgive the impudence). Stop. Posting.
Your accusations regarding UKAnimeGuy’s identity are getting disturbing. Really. And a lot of what you’re doing here (like offering to pay for Sweatdrop’s appearance) should have really happened on e-mail. I don’t understand why you would call them out publicly like this, it’s very strange.
You know why Brian isn’t posting? Because he has some sense! Discussing the way your business is organised with your critics and competitors in a public forum is completely inappropriate. Who does that?
Is UKAnimeGuy a troll? Yeah, kinda. He has made some good points, but he also clearly has a bone to pick with you, and he’s been very rude. Welcome to the internet. I’m a lot more surprised at the way you’ve dealt with him than with his behaviour.
No, Sweatdrop are not the only amateur manga group in the UK. When you write to the others, do point them to this thread so they can see what they’re getting themselves into.
Let’s take a step back here -
Given this is all serving the fans, is it altogether that odd to discuss some aspects of how things are run on a public forum? In my opinion, it’d be good if we were to see more transparency in general here. Now, I don’t necessarily agree with striking deals in the public domain (Indeed I have contacted Sweatdrop and Showmasters privately to see if we can sort something out here), but a lot more facts should be public knowledge than they currently are. While this has been messy and not particularly professional (let’s face it, it’s an argument, it never was going to be neat and tidy), I believe that a lot of good has come from this.
I would just like to close my posting here by saying that whoever uk anime guy is, he is one of the single biggest trolls i have ever seen. He does not care if you have proof of anything, he just wants to goad you into posts he can deliver with spin to people in order to screw you over. You UK anime guy are everything you have accused others here of being. Bravo.
Willie
To be fair I would like to say your right and I think your are at this point in the conversational loop. Although I would say Jason’s comments have offered me some food for thought, and if indeed its true about exclusitivety deals etc. Then I guess from my perspective as a fan and piatron of the anime industry I still feel morality plays apart in my decisions to attend and event. As what I would call a hardcore fan theses sort of deals such the heart out of anime, business aside.
Sounds kinda stupid I know because business is business and money makes the world go round, but I like to think that people me still exist and want to see the best of the industry and less of the cut throated ness. As I said in my early post I personally feel that if both sides co-existed in harmony then the scene would be better and money would roll on ethier side and in my mind both parties would be happy.
FreeSaiyan
How desperate are you to try and put a name to me?
Go ahead and think that I am paul, all that does is show that once again you are finger pointing and totally incorrect!
From what I see the people you are having a go at have decided not to get involved.
Jason you know me very well and no I will not come out of the shadows because I was turned over enough by you in the past to not want it to happen again.
If that makes me a troll then so be it, but truth hurts when as what happened with me I can do nothing about or a number of people that I have known over the years either.
You feel by trying to make yourself look good on here you will pull the wool over a new generation of peoples eyes in a genre that do not know you from the past.
If they let you then fine but in the same way that you feel you are telling the truth I do not see why I should not do the same
Oh man, I wish I’d replied immediately to Jason’s offer yesterday…rather that let that be more fuel for this fire that’s burning Willie’s nice carpet ;_;
I appreciate the trust people have in sweatdrop, thank you everyone, it means a lot. *hugs* And it’s certainly true that we are not in any way contractually obliged to do any one show. I don’t think we’re the only ones in that position, but of course I can’t comment on anyone else’s status – only our own.^_^
I honestly wouldn’t have spoken up at all, we tend to stay out of things and get on with the comicking, but I didn’t want people having the wrong impression in any way.
Jason – Thank you very much for the kind offer. Sadly, as some people have rightly pre-empted, the resources mentioned are more time and manpower than money…sorry! I wish I’d replied earlier and saved you some of the comments….It’s a kind offer, but really, we are only a small group – and no matter what our main careers are, SD is still essentially a hobby group for most of us, so time is limited.
Gathering the group together for any more large shows a year just wouldn’t be feasible for us.
Also, we’d probably rather see other groups get a chance at this. We’ve worked hard to build a creative community in the UK, so it doesn’t seem fair for us to then stifle it, and – let’s be honest – if LFCC and MCM were too similar, then it’s bad for everyone, right? Surely we’d all rather see the shows have their own unique edge. I know LFCC for me has always come across as much more of a signature show, with some amazing guests. I wouldn’t want to see it become another expo completely as it’s far more fun as a punter to have different types of shows to go to ^_^
Mike, I’ll go check your mail, thank you! But yep – whilst we have nothing whatsoever against the LFCC event, we have kind of made our home at the expo. Along with others, we’ve put a lot into the show and watched it grow (just as I’m sure people involved with the LFCC have done with their own show as well), so it’s become an event we feel very much a part of.
I honestly hope things can be resolved here. This started as a post based on positive statements about letting go and moving on. Let’s all get back to that, yeah? ^_^
Signing out.
Ahh, the cut & thrust of open debate. What a joyful thing it is.
Destraudo
“any criticism at the alliance for their goals/actions as opposed to hating the people in it is left wondering how that can possibly not sympathise with the reasons for which the alliance apparently came to be.”
We understand what they tried to do cause of the claimed MCM happenings, our beef was just about the way they went around doing it. It appears that MCM were overtly trying to set up dominance within the market, potentially with the intent of gaining a monopoly. Objections on that are valid, but setting up what was effectively a ‘false-front’ organisation wasn’t the way (in our opinion) to go about doing it.
And we look forward to what the Dimensional Manga / Anime League / ShowMasters alliance can pull off and do to improve the UK scene, as in our opinion competition is always a great thing.
Wow, I almost feel like it would be good to have some closing comments like on Jerry Springer and stuff. What does he call them again? Final thoughts. Yes. Here is, my final thoughts.
I think you could all do with some counselling… no, joke.
I think we’ve learned a lot about Jason from Showmasters, where he’s coming from and how he likes to do things and I think that was very useful. So, thank you.
I also feel like I know a little more about Freesaiyan/Mike Towers, and I am very happy to learn that he is not only capable of apologising, he’s also in favour of transparency. I think that’s really cool and wish him good luck in bringing more transparancy to his own dealings. I think that might go some way towards silencing (or just boring the heck out of) his critics. And that would be a good thing.
And we’ve learned the Emma doesn’t like to set people’s carpets on fire. Well, that’s good too. Seriously though, thanks to all for participating in this debate/trainwreck, and to those that have been watching, thanks for being happy blips on my visitor stats graph.
I wish I got this kind of traffic when talking about my books. ;_;
The comments are still open to anyone with Important Things to say, but I think this party’s winding down now. Tomorrow, I will post a new know-it-all article about making manga, and you can all go back to ignoring me. ^_~
Thanks, and see you around.
I am forced to point out that calling someone out on a blog is not really the best way to go about solving professional problems.
Perhaps a letter?
I mean, Bryan is not going to come onto the Itchpublishing blog and start discussing the ins and outs of his business, is he?
It’s not a matter of ‘hiding’ things, it’s just not what you do when you want to be taken in any way seriously. I’ve followed this whole MA catastrophy from the beginning, and the most obvious problem was how the MA side handled themselves.
Too much internets behaviour. Hitting boards, getting into forum arguments, trying to counter any sort of negative feedback…
The professional thing to do is not to go after the person expressing the feeling, it’s to go after the feeling, to figure out why people are getting upset/angry/paranoid, and work towards removing the need for that response.
Which is a general thing to bear in mind, Mike. Lots of people don’t like you, and by now you must know all the reasons why (there’s about 1,000,000 posts dedicated to the issue plus a whole ED page). Still, there’s nothing there that can’t be reversed or countered.
Just stop giving them ammunition.
In defense of NEO’s moral, which to my understanding is just fine, they even chose to give Pwanda a chance by featuring it as a preview. I’d say that was very supportive of them, especially since Pwanda wasn’t very welcome with the readers of NEO.
Advertising is an ordinary matter of business and making the better offer / having the better show. MCM is obviously established, smoothly run, recommendable, and big news. Is yours as much? (no, please, that’s a rhetorical question for you to consider. I really don’t care to know ~_^)
To the event organisers here, I really advise you to pick up the phone and talk to some parties in person instead of fish for hearsay. You want to know if DDRUK wants to attend your event? Ask them. If a waiter serves me whilst argueing with the chef in my presence, it quite ruins any pleasure I might get from being served. That’s why business should be arranged behind the screens.
XD Sorry Willie, your comment wasn’t on there yet when I started typing. On a random note: I can finally see the titles in your shop again
[Lengthiest roundup ever] Are you sure your blog isn’t quadrupling the amount of comments? The number seems to be off.
That’s OK, Yakumo. I didn’t expect to end the storm in one fell swoop. The comment number doesn’t usually mess up, there are two pages worth.
As for the shop – yeah, it broke. =__=; It keeps doing that, I think it hates me.
I think your comment about the waiter and the chef is very accurate. I don’t think anyone is served by this very public fight, except by how it illuminates the fighters. And no, you guys, it’s not a good light.
Something I forgot to say in my last comment: I think the best thing to do is to let this lie and for all involved to focus on their own game. Collaborate with people if that is to your mutual benefit, and if someone tells you no, accept that with grace.
No one is stopping any of us from playing the best game we can. Sometimes we can’t do something the way we had in mind, but whatever obstacle we find in our way, there is always a way around it, or over, or under, or sideways, if you use all the resources you have. Ganbatte.
A lot of smart words have been said in the last couple of posts.
Its a case of don’t throw stones in glass houses!
My summing up of the wholoe blog on here is:
1, The same 3 figure heads who ran MA are still working together the same as before other than the fact they are not using the words ‘MANGA ALLINACE’. Does that make it any better when they still seem to have the same initiatives in place as such but in a different way?
2, Yes there is mud slinging and that does tend to happen when for instance an animal is backed into a corner such as has happened over the past few months with the culmination seeming to be on here.
3, A throwing around of false allegations for instance saying that they had heard from someonelse that the sweatdrop people were contracted to not work with them when the person who seems to be quite high in the sweatdrop group has completly rubbished that and said they are happy with where they are now
4, The trying to buy someone when they have already made it clear they are not interested, yes it may be viewed as a business proposistion to some but to others it seems as you are trying to twist their arm when they were already clear that they were not interested for what ever reason (very much a showmasters trait).
5, The name calling of people who do not seem to have taken an active role in any of the 60 or so messages posted on here bar one and just to say in essence they are not interested in getting involved.
6, Now trying to pull another group into the fray the ddr people when most likely and yes i could be wrong you will get the same answer of they have no interest in attending events unless they want to, which so far they have obviously not wanted to but you are putting it down to them being contracted, which again you heard from someone else.
7, You have also heard from third parties that the main players as it were in the industry are not allowed to work with you, well again this is yet another thing you have heard from a third party and not directly from the people involved, if they want to work with you they will if not they wont that is a fact of life.
8, The only mainline mud slinging that can be had by you is directed at neo magazine because they wont allow you to advertise in there, when someone above mentioned that they had actually covered the pwanda thing in their magazine more than once already, again as a business it is their choice who they work with and it is not a moral issue they make a business decision which again is their choice, just because you feel that they should cover a certain thing or group it does not mean they see it the same way.
Yes I have along the way spurted a lot but the above points are all taken from the points raised throughout the many messages mentioned so not made up or twisted by me.
To me it is just the same way that showmasters has been across the years in that when they cant get their own way they sling mud, when the otherside does not want to play they go on taunting until they think they will get their own way or try to buy them out.
In the long run yes people will make their own minds up, some more than others have experienced the showmasters scenario over the years and the anime market has got it to come so lets see where it goes from here, I know where it will go the same place as his history has dragged many people already.
UKAnimeGuy
3, A throwing around of false allegations for instance saying that they had heard from someonelse that the sweatdrop people were contracted to not work with them when the person who seems to be quite high in the sweatdrop group has completly rubbished that and said they are happy with where they are now
You have a point there although I’m not calling anyone lair though we’re simply on a blog commenting nobody truley knows what fact and what is fiction. So the above statement may not be true.
And for me this entire discussion fall that point.
UKAnimeGuy the man with no name
you just do not let off do you
sorry i just cannot take what you seriously and no one else dose ether.
and you forgot one more thing mate were i am eating baby’s
ps i know you will have to have the “last word” after me so go ahead have it
j
j
I just read this whole thing in one go O_O …Wow…
I am with Emma on this one, but in my own way. I have never commented about all of this due to the burnt carpets it has caused before. But in this instance, I really just need to get it out there.
I do not belive that what I am about to say is anyone’s business personally, as it is something which is private to myself and DDRUK. However this is getting out of hand and people are pointing fingers at us for something that doesn’t exist.
DDRUK has never, and will never have a contract with the Expo, either in writing or verbally that stops us from going to any event. Technically DDRUK has never and will never have ANY sort of contract with the Expo. We have attended other events, there is even an entire section on DDRUK which shows the other events we go to, like Insert Coin, and other anime conventions.
I choose to go to the MCM Expo events because I feel it is the best way forward for DDRUK. I can and always reserve the right to not go, everyone does, but at the end of the day, I am still going to bring my equipment along as it is a home for us, one of many.
I apologise to Willie for bringing this here however I am going to make this comment and walk away. (Or at least thats my plan).
To make an additional note, I have never been, knowingly, offically contacted by Showmasters, which makes bringing DDRUK into this a little worrying.
Colin signing off!
Oh no!
What has happened now?
the ddr people have not just gone and thrown it all back in your faces again MT anf JJ and DIL have they?
DO I see that they have said no contract?
Yet again and for the second time on here it has pulled the people in that you have refered to as being under contract to the other show when they are clearly not, they have stated they can go anywhere but choose to go to mcm with out being pushed.
It is clear to me that the people feeding your rumour mill and funding your conspiracy theory are talking rubbish if there is anyone doing this in the first place as far as i can see and again from history you have spun it all again surely people must be seeing this now.
You wont agree but yet again egg on your face for being wrong and trying to make another organisation look bad by twisting things
You know, I am rather confused. I could have sworn Colin told me back in early 2007 that he was contractually obliged to attend all MCM Events.
Yakumo,
Going back to Neo’s morals, you are missing the point. Has there EVER been a single article or news item in it about Ayacon, Amecon, Kitacon, Minamicon, Alcon, Fuyucon etc etc (Passing one liners don’t count)? That’s not a rhetorical question – it’s actually genuine, I would like to know! I haven’t seen it, but maybe I missed something here? Someone should really go and research that one.
Finally regarding UKAnimeGuy – don’t give him anymore attention that he’s craving here. Feeding the troll is rarely a good idea.
FreeSaiyan
Thats does not mean you are wrong yet again does it and it is another rumour that you have started?
You have yet again been shown to be talking rubbish and yet again been caught out.
Yes I have been rubbished on here but isnt it funny that everything that I am saying is coming true about the members of the Manga Alliance and the carrying on trying to black other peoples names.
If I am a troll then so be it, but I am a troll that has not been wrong.
You can try to come across as the hard done by mike towers and even try to apologise for getting things wrong but all you are doing is helping to reinforce everything that people say about you on the internet and reinforce what I have been saying about jason of showmasters.
Now you have joined up with another mudslinger and egomaniac you make a right pair and with dil of dimensional entertainment you make a great threesome.
Every time you or your friend jason try to come back at me to get knocked back by the people you are accusing.
Let everyone see that you are rumour mongering and trying to hurt others because you and your little team have been caught out not that you will see it that way as all you will do is add another bit of spin to hit to try and worm your way out.
Like I said at the beginning it will and is coming out in the wash
FreeSaiyan
One last thing your comment to Yakumo about neo yet again really what again does it have to do with you?
Nothing, but you will bang on until you try to hurt them which to be honest I can see how you will
Like I said all you will be doing is making it harder for people to get covered in there after your rants.
And also as I said I would imagine they will be beating the doors down to cover showmasters events london filmcomicon and of course alcon and anime league NOT!
If anyone is not far sghted here it is you.
But there you go i would imagine they would have already read the email i sent them seen what you are continuing to write about them and pushing the nails further in for yourself and friend jason joiner.
Also I would imagine the people that have already come on here who both of you named about contracts and conspiracies will have no problem working with either of you, NOT!
But then again you will always think there are more stones on the beach from you to pullfrom but eventually it comes to an end when people see what you are saying is crap and you are for ever being caught out.
Again this has happened to jason joiner many times in the past and it is happening again as you are both being caught of for spreading rumours that as are on seen to be completly untrue.
Surely people must now see.
Sorry, did someone just say something? I think I just had a brief tl;dr moment.
I make absolutely no apologies for “rumor-mongering”. I know what I have been told, what I have seen and what emails I possess.
What I regret is holding this information secret, as many others I know have for so long out of fear of reprisal. What I also regret is having to ever go into a Manga Alliance as a flawed and overly-elaborate means to try and change all this. I was wrong to do that.
Some people who are reading this will know I am not rumor-mongering but simply revealing the tip of what could well be an iceberg. I would invite them to email me on mtowers1982@yahoo.co.uk. I intend to get to the bottom of what exactly is going on here. For now, I will say no more, since I have no intention of making further accusations without having solid evidence to back it up.
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